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Thread: New Morph???

  1. #1

    New Morph???

    Hey everybody,
    I have something here... one of the guys I'm working with showed me this picture of a burm that hatched out at his facility. He's as clueless as I am. Maybe you can take your best guess about what this is. It came from a Green het for Albino female who was in the cage with a Green het Albino male and a Blue Eyed Leucy male. The entire clutch went against all odds, producing an albino green, one green, two weird albinos, hypos as well as this guy here... So what happened? Two kinds of sperm combining? Can't be! Both had a go and fertilized some of the eggs obviously, but why is this guy colored so weirdly?


  2. #2

    RE: New Morph???

    Crazy cool looking!!!!

  3. #3
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    RE: New Morph???

    i'm thinking just an aberrant hypo? breeding trials will show hopefully.

  4. #4
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    RE: New Morph???

    Could be the influence from the mother combined with the hypo. The green gene has been seen to visually show up in the heterozygous offspring. In the way of a different hue to the 'normal' colors. It has also been thought that the albino gene lends color change to some het offspring.

    Regardless it can't be considered a new morph, since its from already proven and known morphs. It would just be a very different example of combining existing morphs/genes.

  5. #5
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    RE: New Morph???

    That is sosweet, awsome colors, interesting that was from the two hets, a big keeper in my book. love to see hypos one day will have one in my collection.

  6. #6

    RE: New Morph???

    Was also thinking it could be Platinum lineage...I know Hypo and Platty tend to be used interchangeably, but I'm thinking there might be a slight visual difference...Because you have the Cole-Hypo line and other imported lines (forgot the name of the guy who had some other hypos back in the day a bit)..I have 2 hypos, one from Michael's lineage and one from Bob Clark...Both are hypos, but visually a little different...I hope that makes sense?? and this is just my thoughts, not any sort of knowledge behind it... LOL

    Here's mine from Bob, kinda looks similar:

  7. #7
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    RE: New Morph???

    Bob's would be the same line. At least last I knew of. And many times, the names used are just individuals trying to differentiate their animals from others. Though many times its the same genetics and/or lines.

  8. #8

    RE: New Morph???

    Hmm, you're having some interesting thoughts there. I got my Hypo from Bob Clark as well (how cool, we have siblings!!! ) and h told me that Michaels Line is just the same, his came from the same origin as the ones from Indonesia. But yeah, it certainly is a Hypo with something else to it. Maybe the "something" can be separated from the Hypo... so it could be somthing like a new Morph, right?

  9. #9

    RE: New Morph???

    The name I was thinking of was Amir...I think he had some Hypos but rumor had it they passed away...But it was a different gene than Micheal's...Once again, just passing on what was talked at the snakey-water-cooler/beer-tap... ROFL

  10. #10
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    RE: New Morph???

    Quote Originally Posted by pandp
    The name I was thinking of was Amir...I think he had some Hypos but rumor had it they passed away...But it was a different gene than Micheal's...Once again, just passing on what was talked at the snakey-water-cooler/beer-tap... ROFL

    The ones from Amir did pass. They were from the first group offered. Which I beleive there has been some confusion and some misinformation regarding who had what from the original group. Which could mean many are from the same line, but represented as another. Since there was many rumors and grape vine headlines back then,lol.

  11. #11

    RE: New Morph???

    Thanks Bebo for the clarification...When there is a gathering at the beer-tap, things get confused a bit...Bottom line Hypo's are HOT and make great babies... LOL IMHO :-)

  12. #12

    RE: New Morph???

    I don't get some of the things you posted, I guess my english is not good enough... What is a beer-tap?
    Anyway, is this about if there are more than one strain of Hypo? If so, I can show you a second, recessive strain of hypo they call "euro-caramel" over here.
    If you go to terraristik.com, click on "Kleinanzeigen" in the top left corner and then type in "caramel tigerpython" besides the Button that sais "Volltextsuche" you'll find a picture of one of the F1 which is for sale.

  13. #13

    RE: New Morph???

    Quote Originally Posted by Globe Reptiles
    I don't get some of the things you posted, I guess my english is not good enough... What is a beer-tap?
    Anyway, is this about if there are more than one strain of Hypo? If so, I can show you a second, recessive strain of hypo they call "euro-caramel" over here.
    If you go to terraristik.com, click on "Kleinanzeigen" in the top left corner and then type in "caramel tigerpython" besides the Button that sais "Volltextsuche" you'll find a picture of one of the F1 which is for sale.
    I'm sorry...Beer-tap is a variation of the old saying "talking around the water cooler"...Which means the gossip/rumor mill...I just took it to something I enjoy, BEER... ROFL

  14. #14
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    RE: New Morph???

    Quote Originally Posted by Globe Reptiles
    I don't get some of the things you posted, I guess my english is not good enough... What is a beer-tap?
    Anyway, is this about if there are more than one strain of Hypo? If so, I can show you a second, recessive strain of hypo they call "euro-caramel" over here.
    If you go to terraristik.com, click on "Kleinanzeigen" in the top left corner and then type in "caramel tigerpython" besides the Button that sais "Volltextsuche" you'll find a picture of one of the F1 which is for sale.
    The tiger caramel python looks like some of the hypo"ish" looking burms some people are trying to sell here in the states. They look to be mostly or partly burmese python, but have been intergraded with either some pimbura or indian python at some point. Doing that seems to decrease the black color in the offspring (as indians and pimburas have little to no black), and it can also give them similar side markings to the hypos. Most of the hypos have spots with a clear circular spot in the middle, which indians and pimburas tend to have.

    Hypos het for albino green have been some of the best looking hypos I have seen. For what ever reason being het for those two morphs seem to really intensify the color on the hypos a lot of times. The one in the picture almost looks like it is showing some albino though! I don't know if it is just the pic or what but it sure is nice!

  15. #15
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    RE: New Morph???

    This is not meant to offend anyone. But across the pond, there have been many instances where common morphs with a little uniqueness to them is said to be a whole new line or morph over there. And hypo-ish looking burms as Ben mentioned is just one of the newer ones.lol.

    There are your partial patterned granites that have been called Brindled or whatever it is. Gold albinos,etc. Even Greens het granite have been said to be a new morph.lol.

  16. #16

    RE: New Morph???

    Well im a total dumy when it comes to genetics, so i have no contributions as to what she might be, but that burm is hot! Love to see more pics of it.

  17. #17

    RE: New Morph???

    Hey Ben,
    thanks for the Information! So you think the one in the ad could be a hybrid? I've seen some hybrids but they look really different. I've seen some double het albino/green hypos and they are really stunning! I'm going to try breeding a really beautiful looking normal het for albino and green to a hypo next season, do you think you can tell some of the hatchlings that are hypo het for albino and green apart from the others?

    @panp: Ah! I get it

    @bebo: Oh you're so right about this one, there are many people who believe they have some crazy morphs but actually don't. Sometimes I wonder why I haven's seen an ad with Burm het for Retic or something like that. It is sometimes just insane, you mean the het Granite/Calicos for instance... this is absolutely nuts and only nitwits buy it! The "Golden Thai" is just a remain from the 90's, when Albinos weren't called albinos but Golden Thais, because they originate from Thailand and are no "real" Albinos. Now there are guys who sell Albinos from the "Golden Thail - Line"... what can you say?
    But you're not too bad over there either, I've seen a couple of "lavender albino" burms and such

    @martinarquero: You want more - you'll get more




  18. #18
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    RE: New Morph???

    Yeah, people misrepresenting aniamls has been going on forever unfortunatly. And until people do their research before purchasing, it will continue. Here, over there, and everywhere.

  19. #19
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    RE: New Morph???

    Quote Originally Posted by Globe Reptiles
    Hey Ben,
    thanks for the Information! So you think the one in the ad could be a hybrid? I've seen some hybrids but they look really different. I've seen some double het albino/green hypos and they are really stunning! I'm going to try breeding a really beautiful looking normal het for albino and green to a hypo next season, do you think you can tell some of the hatchlings that are hypo het for albino and green apart from the others?
    Calling it a hybrid would not be correct as Burmese Pythons are not a different species, but rather a subspecies of the Indian Python. So, I believe people call them integrated instead. When I went to that link you posted it certainly looked like a burm with some indian python in it or something.

    I actually have some hypos het for albino green myself , and they are really nice looking hypos. Although they don't have as nice of colors as the one you have been posting pics of. There have only been a hand full of hypos het for albino green produced, but over all it seems like they are really nice looking hypos.

  20. #20

    RE: New Morph???

    Oh, right now it would be a Hybrid out of two species the subspecies of "Python molurus" were renamed and seperated into different species that stand for themselves. We now have Python molurus and Python bivittatus and their subspecies (like Python bivittatus progschai) thanks to Ray Hoser -.-
    So yeah, technically it is a Hybrid now.

    How about this, when I bred the two snakes and have the babies hatching we take out best guesses which ones of the snakes het for albino and green are Sounds like a good game for the forums. I'm so exited to see all the hypo combinations in the future!

  21. #21
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    RE: New Morph???

    Quote Originally Posted by Globe Reptiles
    Oh, right now it would be a Hybrid out of two species the subspecies of "Python molurus" were renamed and seperated into different species that stand for themselves. We now have Python molurus and Python bivittatus and their subspecies (like Python bivittatus progschai) thanks to Ray Hoser -.-
    So yeah, technically it is a Hybrid now.
    I don't really want to get hungup on all the technical stuff, but that isn't quite correct. Burmese Python's full scientific name is Python molurus bivittatus and they are a subspecies of Indian Python (Python molurus molurus).

    I gotta run to a repitle show, but I can add more later.

  22. #22

    RE: New Morph???

    Yeah, that's what ya' think! And what I thought actually.... but the aren't P. molurus subspecies any longer, they were renamed in January I believe. There now are Python bivittatus bivittatus (The Regular Burmese Python), Python bivittatus progschai (Dwarf Burmese Python) and Python molurus molurus (Indian Python with local type "Sri Lanka") - still no pimbura... That's the news that went through all important herpetocultural magazines over here. Ray Hoser from Australia was the dude that renamed the species, as well as the reticulated python (which is Broghammerus reticulatus now - what a B*llsh!t!).
    So yeah, it's not Python molurus bivittatus any longer...
    Hope you're having fun at the show, where are you going to?

  23. #23
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    RE: New Morph???

    Quote Originally Posted by Globe Reptiles
    Yeah, that's what ya' think! And what I thought actually.... but the aren't P. molurus subspecies any longer, they were renamed in January I believe. There now are Python bivittatus bivittatus (The Regular Burmese Python), Python bivittatus progschai (Dwarf Burmese Python) and Python molurus molurus (Indian Python with local type "Sri Lanka") - still no pimbura... That's the news that went through all important herpetocultural magazines over here. Ray Hoser from Australia was the dude that renamed the species, as well as the reticulated python (which is Broghammerus reticulatus now - what a B*llsh!t!).
    So yeah, it's not Python molurus bivittatus any longer...
    Hope you're having fun at the show, where are you going to?
    Oh wow. Do you happen to have a link to any info on that? I had heard they seperated the dwarf burms, but I had no idea they seperated the burms from the indians. They will probably change it back in another year or two....lol Seems like they always do stuff like that.

    It wasn't really a reptile show, but rather is birthday party where I do a reptile show for entertainment.

  24. #24

    RE: New Morph???

    There you go Burms - Distinct Species

    I looked it up again and found out that he renamed the genus in 2004, and nobody really cared there either. But somehow it got through by now...

    Ah, I see... I hope it was entertaining then

  25. #25
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    RE: New Morph???

    raymond hoser is a really credible man anymore... he preformed some pretty grusome surgery on hot snakes without anasthetic.

  26. #26
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    RE: New Morph???

    So is it truly a fact now and replacing prior posted and credible information? or is it just a something someone or some group has pushed into the mainstream?

  27. #27

    RE: New Morph???

    Unfortunately this is credible, I can't believe that you guys didn't know. It was in all Magazines over here! And I know for sure that the people who publish it are very knowlegable, they are herpetologists who are renown internationally. So yeah, this is how it looks like since 6 years now - Python bivittatus bivittatus and Python bivittatus progschai.
    And yeah, I'm with you on Ray Hoser there... I'm sorry to say that but he should not write any scientific papers any more... I read his latest ones and they are just... well read them yourself and you'll know what I mean.
    I hope Ben is right and the species is being renamed soon. Even though I don't really know if it should be renamed, it makes, apart from his paper, some sense because the distribution range of Burms and Indian Pythons is overlapping, and natural occuring hybrids were never documented. This is probably because these two pythons live in differen miniature habitats - the burm always seeks the water because of it's hunting strategy (you know laying down, doing nothing, waiting for food to show up by itself) while the Indian Python is a real hunter, going where it's dry and no water around to find it's prey. Thus they have absolutely different habitats and behaviour, of course they are closely related, but maybe it is right to give Burms their own genus. Especially now that we have discovered the Dwarfs... So I can say this to Ray Hoser if it's not being renamed again: Even a blind hen sometimes finds a grain of corn....

  28. #28
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    RE: New Morph???

    Quote Originally Posted by Globe Reptiles
    Unfortunately this is credible, I can't believe that you guys didn't know. It was in all Magazines over here! And I know for sure that the people who publish it are very knowlegable, they are herpetologists who are renown internationally. So yeah, this is how it looks like since 6 years now - Python bivittatus bivittatus and Python bivittatus progschai.
    And yeah, I'm with you on Ray Hoser there... I'm sorry to say that but he should not write any scientific papers any more... I read his latest ones and they are just... well read them yourself and you'll know what I mean.
    I hope Ben is right and the species is being renamed soon. Even though I don't really know if it should be renamed, it makes, apart from his paper, some sense because the distribution range of Burms and Indian Pythons is overlapping, and natural occuring hybrids were never documented. This is probably because these two pythons live in differen miniature habitats - the burm always seeks the water because of it's hunting strategy (you know laying down, doing nothing, waiting for food to show up by itself) while the Indian Python is a real hunter, going where it's dry and no water around to find it's prey. Thus they have absolutely different habitats and behaviour, of course they are closely related, but maybe it is right to give Burms their own genus. Especially now that we have discovered the Dwarfs... So I can say this to Ray Hoser if it's not being renamed again: Even a blind hen sometimes finds a grain of corn....
    Is there a link to the full article or a similar one? The abstract you posted looks to be suggesting the name change, and gives some reasons why, but still it calls burmese pythons by their same old name. I've searched google and haven't found a whole lot on this.

    Thanks,
    Ben

  29. #29

    RE: New Morph???

    I just figured out, that there isn't much in the english language, and most of you don't speak anything else, right? I've found some stuff in french and italian... well, I'll keep looking for things...
    For now I took pictures (I don't have a scanner) of the list that is published annualy of the Reptiles and Amphibians who were newly discribed in the past year, also the ones that were re-named. So as it appears I can't really upload it, well I technically can, but the writing appears too small then... I can send it to you via eMail, if you like! It says that the Taxonomic name is now back how it was in 1820, when KUHL described it as Python bivittatus, with a new subspecies the dwarf Burmese Python (Python bivittatus progschai). So yeah, I guess, if that annual List that appears internationally (I unfortunately only have it in German, but it's half Latin, so you might still understand it) isn't a fake, it is re-named.
    But luckily I have to correct myself, it was Ray Hoser who suggested the change in 2004, it was accepted in 2009 though by somebody else who hopefully knew what he was doing...

  30. #30
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    RE: New Morph???

    I originally heard that the dwarves would be a sub-species or one in there own. Or at least thats what was being tried at the time. I haven't followed it much since.

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